Party Leader build

[Jokerswyld]

Just had an idea.. it's probably been done before, but figured I'd put in my $0.02. The following character build I like to call the 'Party Leader' because of all the useful things it can do for the rest of the group.

I know there's a lot of people who don't like builds that use four classes, but please bear with me. I'll present this as both a playable level 20 and the finished level 30.

*note* If going for the lvl 30 build in MotB then you'll have to use 'givefeat 1760' to get the NW9 epithet.

Female Asimar (female for the voice 'Quiet Leader' :D )

LVL20 - Paladin 3/Cleric 7/Warpriest 7/NW9 3
LVL30 - Paladin 3/Cleric 12/Warpriest 10/NW9 5

Starting Stats:
Str 14 (+2)
Dex 12 (+1)
Con 12 (+1)
Int 12 (+1)
Wis 17 (+3)
Cha 16 (+3)

Alignment: LG (obviously)

Diety: I picked Ilmater because this character iss all about sacrificing for others.. and that really fits with Ilmater from an RP point of view. :D

*note* I used {} to show class abilities that would benefit the party.

Level 1: Paladin 1 - [Luck of Heroes] - Concentration +4, Diplomacy +4, Spot +2
Level 2: Cleric 1 - Domains: Healing, Sun
Level 3: Cleric 2 - [Power Attack] - Spot +3
Level 4: Cleric 3 - +1 WIS (18)
Level 5: Cleric 4 - Spot +4
Level 6: Paladin 2 - [Divine Might]
Level 7: Cleric 5 - Spot +5 (that's all that's needed)
Level 8: Cleric 6 - +1 CHA (17) - Heal +1 (place skill points here instead of Spot)
Level 9: Paladin 3 - [Combat Casting] - {Aura of Courage}
Level 10: Cleric 7
Level 11: Warpriest 1 - {War Glory}{Remove Fear}
Level 12: Warpriest 2 - +1 CHA (18) - [Augment Healing] - {Inflame}
Level 13: Warpriest 3 - {Mass Cure Light Wounds}
Level 14: WarPriest 4
Level 15: Warpriest 5 - [Divine Resistance] - {Fear Aura}
Level 16: Warpriest 6 - +1 WIS (19) - {Battletide}
Level 17: Warpriest 7 - {Haste}
Level 18: NW9 1 - [Toughness] - {Protective Aura}
Level 19: NW9 2
Level 20: NW9 3 - +1 CHA (19) - {Guarding the Lord}

Level 21: Warpriest 8 - [Epic Toughness +30]
Level 22: Warpriest 9 - {Mass Heal}
Level 23: Warpriest 10 - [Rescue] - {Implacable Foe}
Level 24: NW9 4 - +1 CHA (20)
Level 25: NW9 5 - [Epic Resilience]
Level 26: Cleric 8
Level 27: Cleric 9 - [Epic Toughness +60]
Level 28: Cleric 10 - +1 WIS (20)
Level 29: Cleric 11 - [Extra Turning] <-- Really, you can choose anything here
Level 30: Cleric 12

Well, there it is. I think it's pretty solid. I'm going to try a play through of the OC followed by MotB with it to see how things go. If anyone has any comments or can suggest improvements, I'd be grateful for the input.

..Pretty ambitious for a first post, eh? ;) :p

[Epirote]

Just had an idea.. it's probably been done before, but figured I'd put in my $0.02. The following character build I like to call the 'Party Leader' because of all the useful things it can do for the rest of the group.

I know there's a lot of people who don't like builds that use four classes, but please bear with me. I'll present this as both a playable level 20 and the finished level 30.

Nothing wrong with builds that use four classes. :D

*note* If going for the lvl 30 build in MotB then you'll have to use 'givefeat 1760' to get the NW9 epithet.Not if you play through the OC first or build the character in a trainer, like go Vordan's Hero Creator.

Female Asimar (female for the voice 'Quiet Leader' :D )

LVL20 - Paladin 3/Cleric 7/Warpriest 7/NW9 3
LVL30 - Paladin 3/Cleric 12/Warpriest 10/NW9 5

Starting Stats:
Str 14 (+2)
Dex 12 (+1)
Con 12 (+1)
Int 12 (+1)
Wis 17 (+3)
Cha 16 (+3)

Alignment: LG (obviously)

Diety: I picked Ilmater because this character iss all about sacrificing for others.. and that really fits with Ilmater from an RP point of view. :D

*note* I used {} to show class abilities that would benefit the party.

Level 1: Paladin 1 - [Luck of Heroes] - Concentration +4, Diplomacy +4, Spot +2You should consider taking Spellcasting Prodigy instead of Luck of Heroes; it would help your spellcasting a bit.

Level 2: Cleric 1 - Domains: Healing, Sun why? Couldn't I just pick any two I like?

Level 3: Cleric 2 - [Power Attack] - Spot +3Unless you want Power Attack as a prerequisite for Cleave, I would consider taking something else.

Level 4: Cleric 3 - +1 WIS (18)
Level 5: Cleric 4 - Spot +4
Level 6: Paladin 2 - [Divine Might] Looks good so far.

Level 7: Cleric 5 - Spot +5 (that's all that's needed)yeah, I agree, not sure why you want her to have Spot, but I suppose it makes sense. Personally, on that build I would maximize Concentration and Spellcraft and then put anything left over into Diplomacy and other skills.


Level 8: Cleric 6 - +1 CHA (17) - Heal +1 (place skill points here instead of Spot)Makes sense I suppose, but see comments above. I consider Concentration and Spellcraft most important in any spell caster build.

Level 9: Paladin 3 - [Combat Casting] - {Aura of Courage}
Level 10: Cleric 7Combat Casting: if you don't need it as a prerequisite for something else, it comes a bit late.

Level 11: Warpriest 1 - {War Glory}{Remove Fear}
Level 12: Warpriest 2 - +1 CHA (18) - [Augment Healing] - {Inflame}Again makes sense, I suppose, but ... there are better choices. Don't know, I never take that feat on any of my cleric builds.

Level 13: Warpriest 3 - {Mass Cure Light Wounds}
Level 14: WarPriest 4
Level 15: Warpriest 5 - [Divine Resistance] - {Fear Aura}Divine Resistance, is also a questionable choice for the benefits, it provides.

Level 16: Warpriest 6 - +1 WIS (19) - {Battletide}
Level 17: Warpriest 7 - {Haste}
Level 18: NW9 1 - [Toughness] - {Protective Aura}
Level 19: NW9 2
Level 20: NW9 3 - +1 CHA (19) - {Guarding the Lord}

Level 21: Warpriest 8 - [Epic Toughness +30]
Level 22: Warpriest 9 - {Mass Heal}
Level 23: Warpriest 10 - [Rescue] - {Implacable Foe}
Level 24: NW9 4 - +1 CHA (20)
Level 25: NW9 5 - [Epic Resilience]
Level 26: Cleric 8
Level 27: Cleric 9 - [Epic Toughness +60]
Level 28: Cleric 10 - +1 WIS (20)
Level 29: Cleric 11 - [Extra Turning] <-- Really, you can choose anything here
Level 30: Cleric 12Yeah, well, Extra Turning comes a bit late there, I usually take it early, if at all.

And what? No cleave, no metamagic, not even extend spell? :confused: No Able Learner? :confused: No Practiced Spellcaster: Cleric? :confused:

Well, there it is. I think it's pretty solid. I'm going to try a play through of the OC followed by MotB with it to see how things go. If anyone has any comments or can suggest improvements, I'd be grateful for the input.

..Pretty ambitious for a first post, eh? ;) :pThat's a good test there. You'll see how it plays out in both campaigns. I find that playing through the campaigns, I often do things differently than planned out for that build. One small example, on paper it doesn't matter if you take Weapon Finesse for a DEX fighter/rogue early or not. In the campaigns, it matters a lot, because if you don't take it asap, you will have to endure three more levels, where you mostly fail to even hit the opponent.

[kgambit]

Unless you want Power Attack as a prerequisite for Cleave, I would consider taking something else.


Power attack is a prerequisite for Divine Might. :D


why? Couldn't I just pick any two (domains) I like?


Those two domains actually fit with the build as a support healer. (Hence the Mass heal). My choices would have been earth and water to get toughness and evasion but the OP's choices work well with this build.

I agree with Epirote. I would dump Divine Resilience and replace it with Divine Shield for the boost to AC. That's a +5 bonus you're missing out on.

I would also consider dumping Luck of Heroes, take power attack at level 1 and take weapon focus later. With Divine Grace, you don't need luck of heroes for a paladin build and weapon focus gives you +1 to attack.

[Equester]

Quote:
Level 7: Cleric 5 - Spot +5 (that's all that's needed)
yeah, I agree, not sure why you want her to have Spot, but I suppose it makes sense. Personally, on that build I would maximize Concentration and Spellcraft and then put anything left over into Diplomacy and other skills.

5 spot is a prerequest for warpriest.
personally i would at least shift one of the domains to "war" and maybe air or earth.

combat casting is another prerequest for the warpriest

[Epirote]

I was just too lazy to go look that up; only tried a warpriest with a druid once and didn't get far, because of reformat ate my saves with no backup. huh, backup, what's that? :confused::D

[Jokerswyld]

Thanks for the suggestions. I've played it a bit now and the going is fairly easy. I let Khelgar tank and Neeshka shoot. I stand back and shoot too, and heal/buff as needed. The graveyard was really easy.

But looking at your suggestions and going over the build again, I've decided on a few changes. Power Attack and Divine Might are gone. I just had those in there to give her a bit of occasional power, but.. after playing with it, I've not used it once.. as I said.. I stand back and shoot things and keep Khelgar alive as he fights.

For the cleric domains.. lol.. of course you can pick what you want. I choose Healing and Sun for their usefulness. Healing domain gives you the Empowered Healing which is great because this character IS the party's healer. Anything that helps to keep the rest of the team alive is good. I chose Sun domain just because I figure she had better be able to offer something to combat once in a while.. lol. And with the sheer number of undead in the game, it seemed like a good choice.

Looking over the rest of the build, I decided to go with your suggestion of Spellcraft, but only after getting four ranks of Healing to qualify for the Augment Healing feat. As a healer, it will (should) help me. Also, Able Learner was added before gaining levels in NW9 to make use of it's extra skill points so I can pump up Spellcraft.

*note* Concentration and Diplomacy are given max ranks to start and +1 at every level.

1 - Paladin 1 - Spot +2; Spellcasting Prodigy
2 - Cleric 1 - 1 saved point; Healing Domain, Sun Domain
3 - Cleric 2 - +6, Spot +3; Combat Casting
4 - Cleric 3 - +1 Wis (18); 1 saved point
5 - Cleric 4 - Spot +4
6 - Paladin 2 - 1 saved point; Divine Resistance
7 - Cleric 5 - Spot +5
8 - Cleric 6 - +1 Cha (17); Healing +1
9 - Paladin 3 - Healing +2; Extra Turning; Aura of Courage
10 - Cleric 7 -Healing +3
11 - Warpriest 1 - Healing +4; Remove Fear 1/day, War Glory
12 - Warpriest 2 - +1 Cha (18); Spellcraft +1; Augment Healing; Inflame 1/day
13 - Warpriest 3 - Spellcraft +2; Mass Cure Light Wounds 1/day
14 - Warpriest 4 - Spellcraft +3
15 - Warpriest 5 - Spellcraft +4; Able Learner
16 - Warpriest 6 - +1 Wis (19); Spellcraft +5; Battletide 1/day
17 - Warpriest 7 - Spellcraft +6; Haste 3/day
18 - NW9 1 - Spellcraft +9; Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric); Protective Aura
19 - NW9 2 - Spellcraft +12
20 - NW9 3 - +1 Cha (19); Spellcraft +15; Guarding the Lord 3/day

21 - NW9 4 - Spellcraft +18; Toughness
22 - NW9 5 - Spellcraft +21 (from levels 23-30, increase Spellcraft by +1)
23 - Warpriest 8 - Epic Toughness (+30)
24 - Warpriest 9 - +1 Cha (20); Mass Heal 1/day
25 - Warpriest 10 - Epic Resilience; Implacable Foe 1/day
26 - Cleric 8
27 - Cleric 9 - Rescue
28 - Cleric 10 - +1 Wis (20)
29 - Cleric 11 - Epic Spell (Vampiric Feast) (this is still basically an open feat)
30 - Cleric 12

So there's my tweaked build. I think it's a bit better now that it was originally. But.. that's why I posted it here.. to get other's opinions. :D

And.. as for the Divine Resistance feat.. I'll defend it because it gives resistances to the entire party.. and that's what this character is all about.. making the other members of your party more effective, keeping them going, and being able to protect them as needed. Not a tank, not a front line fighter, not a primary offensive caster. This character is very effective at healing and buffing the party, but can and will fight as needed.

:D

[Epirote]

You might wanna rethink that whole healer approach. Other healing methods, potions, healing kits are a-plenty, so from a strictly powergaming point of view, you're wasting your talents. And if you want your offensive spells to count and for various other reasons, you should really max out Spellcraft. ;)

[Jokerswyld]

so from a strictly powergaming point of view, you're wasting your talents.

Powergaming? Er.. what's that? :p :vine: Isn't that what those little dudes do.. no not Oopmaloompas.. munchkins?! ;) :D

Heh, yes things could be done differently with this build, but I wasn't really going to 'powergame' with it.

[kgambit]

If this is about protecting other party members, why use all 5 levels of NWN9?

Protective Aura and Guarding the lord are at 1st and 3rd level, and nothing after that really provides a party benefit. Why not swap out the last two levels of NWN9 for two more cleric levels?

Personally, although I see what you are doing with this build, I would drop all 5 levels of NWN9 and replace them 5 levels of divine champion. The charisma based benefits that the DC gets give you damage, ac, and save bonuses plus extra feats and would allow your character to not only act as a healer but to also fill a front line role should it be necessary. Sometimes the only way to save someone is to get between them and the monster beating on them. :D

Just a thought. :D

PS: Don't get me wrong, I actually LIKE this build. It's rare to see someone actually go for a concept and stick with it instead of munckinizing their characters. :D

[Jokerswyld]

If this is about protecting other party members, why use all 5 levels of NWN9?

Protective Aura and Guarding the lord are at 1st and 3rd level, and nothing after that really provides a party benefit. Why not swap out the last two levels of NWN9 for two more cleric levels?

Personally, although I see what you are doing with this build, I would drop all 5 levels of NWN9 and replace them 5 levels of divine champion. The charisma based benefits that the DC gets give you damage, ac, and save bonuses plus extra feats and would allow your character to not only act as a healer but to also fill a front line role should it be necessary. Sometimes the only way to save someone is to get between them and the monster beating on them. :D

Just a thought. :D

PS: Don't get me wrong, I actually LIKE this build. It's rare to see someone actually go for a concept and stick with it instead of munckinizing their characters. :D

I mostly went with NW9 for the RP aspect of it.. along with the fact it has abilities in line with what the concept for this character is. That's why I ended with only 3 levels of NW9 for the 1-20 version.

But DC.. hmm.. I'll look into that. Cheers! ;)

[kgambit]

The DC was made for a build like this. :D

If you do use the DC, put the DC levels in at epic levels so you gain access to more Epic level feats. You get one every level if you sequence the DC levels properly. :D

Again I like the concept that this is an RP build. :D

[Epirote]

I like it too, don't get me wrong. It's just that I am a RP at heart, but usually after I make an interesting RP build, I rework it from a powergaming point of view, just to show that I can and to please the powergaming folks out there. ;)

[Jokerswyld]

Well, I've been playing this new character for a bit now. In Neverwinter and going through the City Watch path. Am Level 8 right now, and I can't really say that it has been any harder or easier than normal. I'm going with the second version of the build I posted earlier.

Tactics-wise, I'm letting Khelgar and now Neeshka charge ahead and kill stuff as they see fit. I have to heal her quite a bit more often than him, but letting her use the sneak attacks is worth it. Elanee, who I don't like :D I'm leaving alone. I'll just use her for crafting stuff I think. Mainly she summons an animal, calls her animal companion then changes into an animal and attacks.. it is somewhat humourous seeing a pair of badgers and a wolf rushing to attack dead things that Khelgar and Neeshka have already killed. :D

The graveyard/crypts and the Highcliff castle were very easy. That sun domain made short work of the undead. And what I didn't bbq with divine light, Khelgar smashed with his flaming morningstar! :D

So, all I can say is so far so good. I'm not used to playing a character that mostly just sits back from combat most of the time. It's.. different. Heh.. can't wait until I get using Qara.. I might actually just let here have a bit of free reign with her fire spells.. lol.

More later after I get further along.

Oh, and that Divine Resistance that I was so hung up on before.. heh.. :o ..i'm glad I saved before leveling up when I chose it. I played with it for two hours.. didn't use it once. So I reloaded the save and went with Divine Shield as suggested.

*edit* Spelling mistakes.. :p

[kgambit]

Sounds like the build is working out nicely. Will be interested to see how it works out further on. :D

[D.0.a]

I don't know why you'd want to make it MORE powerful, it's sick as it is! And I'm kinda known for my power builds, especialy in PNP (Lvl 30 character who can cast spells as a lvl 30 socerer AND lvl 30 cleric?:wtf: Tis not normal!:D )

[Jokerswyld]

Casavir, Khelgar, Shandra as my fighters, Qara as my nuker, and me as the healer and undead smiter :D ..this is almost too easy. My warriors are all decked out in full plate, Cas has a heavy shield, Khel has a tower shield, and Shan is going with the dual wielding of the shortswords.. kind of lame, I know, but whatever. Qara just stays back and fries things with her fire spells, then the rest rush in to mop up. Heh.. even playing with rules set to dnd hardcore (friendly fire damage :D ) I've hardly had to do much healing at all.

The toughest bit was the fight with Lorne. I wanted to try it myself, so I did. He did kill me the first time.. heh. Reloaded, kept my distance, and finally beat him.

I'm lvl 13, with the three levels into Warpriest. My spellcasting is a bit behind where a pure cleric's would be, but what I can do, I do very well! I'm having fun, people like me a lot, heh. The only thing.. my alignment has gone from LG to NG because I kept doing things I thought were right, not how the law said they should be done.. heh. Oh well. I don't need any more pally levels.

[kgambit]

Lvl 30 character who can cast spells as a lvl 30 socerer AND lvl 30 cleric?

You must be playing a highly bastardized home rule version of a mystic theurge (which is supposed to be a PrC only) as a base class. :wtf:

[D.0.a]

No barstardization requiered. Just the right race and feats (true it does depend on the mystic theurge as a PrC). There is a human subrace call the "Illumians". If you choose the right racial benefits (yes you get to pick some fo them!) and feats you can counter the lose of upto 7 CL's insted of just 4 (with practiced caster in both). In pnp you can take PrC's into epic lvls to.

[kgambit]

Yeah I've read about the Illumians. Wierd race. I think WotC jumped the shark with that one though. I did figure you had taken mystic theurge into epic levels with that character.

[D.0.a]

Eh, they're just designed to work best if they multi-class. Not every one who plays them goes totally spec'ed out. (most of mine are actualy rog/ftr's)